- [Announcer] Welcome, to "What Builders Don't Tell Their Clients." With your host, Joe Miner. Listening to the show, you'll learn how to avoid the unnecessary pain, and avoidable costs, that commonly occur, in the building and renovating process. Joel will also inspire you with his knowledge, experience and ideas, on how to make your home, a place to suit your lifestyle, for years to come. - And not to mention Andrew Quadrio will inspire you as well. We're back with the, another episode, of "What Builders Don't Tell Their Clients." So I really need to change the intro, to with Andrew Quadrio as well. 'Cause we seem to be doing this quite often. So Andrew, how are you going? - I'm good man how are you? - Good good so- - Everybody is safe? - We're just having an interesting conversation, on a couple of things prior to this conversation. I've had a few conversations with a lady this week, with regards to budget and budget blow outs, and what they end up spending, and what their original budget was. And you heard her just talked to me, about a few things too. So, right into it. And tell me what you were, just we'll tell everyone else what - I wanna . I think if people wanna hear, about the budget blowouts first. So what was this lady's original budget, and what did it end up coming in at? - Well, this, so basically the way I set up a few things, is we have a, we have a questionnaire, that a lot of people fill out, prior to we go and see them. So, it's basically our inquiry form. So when someone touches base with me, they fill the inquiry form, so I can get some information, and work out the best way to help them. Now, this lady's bathroom, that she was wanting done, was a budget of 20 to $30,000 which is just quite reasonable for a bathroom. I thought all right, she's, that seems pretty reasonable. Anyway, did a consultation, went out and seen her, worked out what she wanted done, and the original budget that she had wanted. I'm thinking it's gonna be nowhere near what she's after, because she wanted to split one room, and basically create two bathrooms out of it. Anyway, I started putting the quote together, got a few things sorted, and things started getting up, around, you know, twice her budget. And I'd sort of rang in and said, hey, look, we're starting to get up, around the double, what you we're originally thinking. And she said, "Oh, I knew it was gonna be expensive, and yeah, or I will," I said, look, do you want me to keep going? Or do we just cut back, and work out what's most important? She said, "Look, just keep going, and we'll work out a few things." So, anyway I finished the quote, and it basically had come to almost three times, of what she had originally laid. So it was around the $65,000 mark. And I was a little bit shocked on the price, and you know, she'd pick all the selections, and everything that she'd picked. And I ran to the quote with her, and at the end of it, she just basically, I said, look, what do you think? What, like, what do you wanna do? Is this somewhere, was what you're wanting to spend or is it not? Or what do you think? And she goes, well, I'm thinking I'm gonna get it done. And I was like, wow! Like your budget was 20 to 30,000. And now all of a sudden it's 65,000. Look, what happened between the actual budget, and the, I don't know, this happens all the time. I feel like there's a lot of the people, the budget they tell you, and what they actually wanna spend, two different things. And I don't know, I try to, some people feel a bit rude or offended about it, but the main reason I wanna know, is because, well, there's no point me wasting your time, and putting all this stuff together, and you're going picking all your items, when they're not even relevant, to how much you wanna spend you know? - Yeah. - Like that's the main reason I wanna know is, 'cause I can steer you in the direction, of saying, well, you know, with starting to get up well, but that part is out of the question. That's not even, we can't even think about that, because it's just of the budget. - Or if your budget is realistic, we can say, hey, well that's somewhere in your budget, We'll go for picking that. That's fine. - Yeah, it's so important for it's so important for, it's so important for the builder and client, to be on the same page too. And that includes, that, you know, is very important with budget. And, if, you know, you don't tell your builder how much, you actually have to spend. And there's usually like, we we've spoken about it before. There's usually two budgets. Says what? If you're comfortable spending, especially with a big job bathrooms, not so much, but with a big renovation, that's, you know, a couple of hundred, three, $400,000. There's usually two budgets. A budget you're comfortable spending, and then a budget that you can push yourself to, not to the point where you're going to stretch, over stretch yourself, so you can't actually afford, to live in the house, after you've, after the job's finished. But a point where you go, yeah, okay, we can, we can, you know, we can cut down on some expenses, and that sort of stuff to afford that, if we get everything we, if we get, if we're gonna get a certain few things, that might not be included in our original budget. So that's the point in, that's why, that's why I talk to people about two budgets, and how it's really important. Because if we can get all your needs, for your happy, comfortable budget, and we can get some of, within your budget, and then for a little bit more, all that's probably, you know, 20 or 30 K more, we can get a couple of the wants, that you sort of, that are pretty important to you. People wanna hear about it. I mean like, okay, we can sort of, we might be able to make, move things around, and not buy it, not buy that new car, or not get, not going out every second night, or something where I would go out once a week, instead of every second or something like that, to afford that, because that's what we really want, in our home sort of thing so- - Yeah, and I feel like, a lot of conversations that I'm bringing back, always come back to budget, like regardless, like no matter what happens, the budget is one of the most key factors, that play a big part. Like, I'll probably talk about this a lot, but I think that, you know, it's that determining factor, on what you're gonna get, and what the outcome you're gonna receive is, because if you're clear on that, it really helps on working out, what or how your, what you're gonna able to include, and what you can or can't get, and having them to particular things, are really gonna be, you know, make things more available, or make things, you know, after what you want rather than, you know, getting that disappointment factor. And I think, like on part, on my behalf, I think it would, it's a lot better you know, Mick talks about this all the time but one of our, I'm blank on what to give him the explanation for, but, basically- Hey? - The guy who used to talk a lot. - So basically being the person who, you know, cause you don't wanna have all this dream, built up and then basically ripped away from you, you're, it's better off to set up a realistic budget, and say, hey, we'll work towards that. And then once we've hit that mark with that budget, then basically say, hey, look, we're at your budget. And we know you've got a bit of wiggle room to move. Do you wanna add these things, that you really would like in it? Rather than saying, hey, here's the dream, and then let's cut that out, and go back to, to what's gonna be more realistic. - Yeah, yeah you don't wanna, we don't wanna be the people, that start taking your dreams away. All of these lofty ideas, that, you know, architects and drafts people, sometimes put putting people's heads of you know, what they can design the house to look like, which is all well and good, but you know, an architect or a draftsman, doesn't price jobs like we do every day, and does not, not on site, and looking at how much things cost, and that sort of stuff. And it happens all the time, where, you know, two and three times, people, you know, go and get plans drawn, and then two or three times as much, it costs two or three times as much as, what their budget is. And then they sort of get deflated, or it looks like you've slept in the face sort of thing. When you hear this is The budget is 500,000, I think it should be like 1.5 million. And that is, they go, - But how often does that happen? - Every time. Every single time - 10 out of 10? But it's not 10 because it's happened once. - Yeah. - It has happened. - Yeah. - with a budget and they've gone, this is what we wanna spend. And it's almost, come on par. - Almost, almost. - Almost key word. - Next thing I think- - Very close. It wasn't doubled. - I've come across that a few times. Double or triple. - Yes, and it's like, I think there's something ridiculous, like 80% of plans never get built. - Yeah, yeah and why not? Why not design it to the budget? Why would you go and design it, without a budget in mind, and without talking someone, that can keep it to a budget, and not having that person like a builder, involved with the design? You know, we don't have to physically do the design, but we can be involved with the architecture, or with the drafts person to do the design, so we can try and curb costs and say, look, we can see this and say, yeah, it gets, if we do this, this, and this, these on these first, couple of things on your needs list, let's, let's design it for that first and see what we get. Then if we can add another thing, and add another one, and then another one, to get to your budget, then we're not taking away, we're not stealing from you. we're not stealing from you, in fact we're adding to the dream. - Yeah, and I think that's really important, to make sure that the builders involved from the start, because, you know, the people, I think people think they're doing the right thing, by going to the designer and getting things, you know, done 'cause that's part of the process. We need plans, so we'll go to the design and get that done, then we'll go see the builder, because he needs to be part of that afterwards. But I think the builder should be involved, as a professional, and as the other people, as the other professionals like the designer, the engineer, and all the soil testing, and everything else, the energy efficiency, part of the council application, all that stuff I think they should be involved in that. Because at the end of the day, that builder is building your project, and they're gonna be the one processing it. And that's gonna ultimately determine, on what is gonna be your outcome really, rather than, you know? - Yeah, yeah, they they're gonna be around the longest. And then, I was talking to a client today about it. There'll be a point where your architect, is not involved, as involved with the project. This conversation arose, because she's having an, she's involved with it already. Like she's having a meeting with the architect, who's a specialist architect, for the type of house we're building, in a couple of weeks time. And it got mentioned to me yesterday. And I was like, no, I need to be at that meeting. Like it might sound rude, but I need to be that meeting, because there's gonna become a time, when the architect is not involved, as involved with the project anymore, just because that's the nature, of the evolution of the project and that. So he's not gonna be the, sort of leading, how person, to your, you know, why, or your vision of the home. He's not gonna be the how it comes together, person forever. - Yeah, because, 'cause quite often, the person for the first six to 12 months- - Yeah that's right. - And then, or the next person for the six to 12 months. - towards the the baton gets passed to us the builder, and then we have to complete it. And then they come here at the end and take the glory. Oh, look at my design. - But ultimately, ultimately, when that's all done and finished, who do they talk about the most? - That's right. Yeah, it's all about the person, that's been the most time, with which is the builder. You have the builder, and then I was this sort of saying this, to this client today. It's like, if I'm not in this, like I might get the list of things, that you go through for the brief. Great, which is awesome. But I want here for me, and me personally, I've found that I've got to hear, what people are saying. What, not just read what people said, but I wanna hear it, and feel their emotion, so I can get, so I can learn what's really important too. Like yesterday we were having a chat, and she talked about, oh, I can see myself walking through the house, and walking out here and putting this in this basket, and that sort of stuff. I'm like, that's the sort of stuff, that needs to be out of your head, onto a bit of paper. So that one, architect can do it, and two, I can build it, the way you envisioned it. So, because it stays in your head, it'll eventually it might come out, but it might take forever to come out. And it'll be all sorts of pain and heartache, for it to be, for it to happen. Because you can't get it, it needs to be- - Yeah it's not enough. - And if you can't, if you personally, as the client, can't get that, that's fine. No problem at all. But you need to find someone that's gonna help you, bring that sort of detail out, and be able to cast it to the team, that's underneath you. So your architecture designer, your engineer, your builder. You need to be offered to show them your vision, or that I need to help you, like visualize and conceptualize the vision, into something that everybody can see, and you go, yes, that's it. And then everybody go, I could call, that's what we're working towards. And then we can go from there sort of thing. - Yeah. - Because if it stays in your head as the client, then, it's always gonna be in your head, it's never gonna be right out of your head. - And then you'll be disappointed at the end, with what you're after. - That's right yes. That's- - And I personally myself love, when you go to someone's place and like, yeah, we wanna do this and this and this, and that's gone. And then we know what we want here and that, and it's just like good, is know what you want. - Yeah. - Because that helps me out massively, where, compared like when we don't really know, what we wanna do here, and we liked the barbecue area but the patio area just doesn't work. I'm not sure what we wanna do. And it gets to a point where it's like, like we can help you, but at the end of the day, you need to find why you're doing it, and what's going on, and what needs to be done, to be able to get the outcome you desire. Like we're not the, we're not gonna be the ones living there. - Yeah, that's right. - You're the one that's gonna be living with the end result. So, I like when I go to a site, and someone's pretty much just like telling, almost telling me what to do, because it's like, not telling me what to do, but telling me how they want it, because it's like, that's good, because I can tell you've made up your mind already. - Yeah, yeah. - I went to a lady this afternoon, and she's like, I got this is, this, I want this, I want that, I want that. And I'm like, that's good sweet, you know exactly what you want. - Yeah. - You don't need my suggestions. So, you know, also my 2 cents in where it's needed, but- - Yeah of course, - It's, you know, it's their option to take it or not. But if they know what they want, well, you know it's brilliant. - Yes. - Have done enough thinking about it rather than- - Yeah, yeah, like this client she's she knows exactly what she wants, and knows exactly how she's been. She's been dreaming of this house. She was telling me yesterday. I've been dreaming this house for years, I thought I'd be already in it, and all this sort of stuff and like, and we're still in design phases, to submit it to counselor, and there's not even a design briefing. I mean that's a week and a half's time. So, that's how far off it's still like, it's still, like this huge project too. So it's probably still a good, probably end of next year before it's finished. Or I could, tell how- - Just as Arnie, I think, yeah that's- - And we'll do it, and construction too, but yeah it's gonna take a long time, to get it from, to where it is now to finished. That's for sure. So, yeah, it's just really, really important to get clear, on what you're gonna need to go through our system, to make sure that you do get clear on what you're after. - And I think people underestimate the planning stage. Like people think, get plans done, let's go and build. It's just simply, just doesn't work like that. - So important to get what, to know what you want, how much it'll cost, and what steps are to get there, is so, so important. And that's why you need someone with a framework, of some description to be able to take you through that. And that knows the ins and outs of it. And knows just council approval knows, the design, how it should be designed, all the consultants that need to be spoken to, and all that sort of stuff. And where to do all the research, and get all the information from, so that the planning stage can be done properly so that, and it can be priced properly too. 'Cause if it's planned properly, it can be priced properly, and then it gives you a better project during construction, and then will give you a better outcome in the end. - Yeah. - So, you know, as we've said before, if it doesn't start right, it'll never be right. It's an old, carpenter you know, the carpenter told me that when I was an apprentice. You know, it's doesn't matter what you are. If you don't start right, you're never gonna be right. If you don't get the footings in the right spot, the house is never gonna be in the right spot simple. - Yeah and- - And I have seen guys with the planning, especially in a renovation or addition - I don't know what your thoughts are, but I've, I see quite, well, I hear quite often there's you know, people will be looking at doing something, and they do go see the builder first, and the builder go, oh, can you just go see this designer, ring me when that design is done, and I'll give you a to do it. - My simple advice to that, find another builder. Find a builder that will work with you. If a builder doesn't wanna work with you, then it just means they're not gonna work with you, for the entirety of the project. They're gonna be, there's gonna become a point, where you're not gonna get on. - Yes, and from, I guess from what people, like people who don't know, what advantages does that give them, if they do work with the builder, from the start? - It allows continuity of ideas, and continuity of communication, throughout the whole project. So you start in with one person, it might take you a couple of goes, a couple of builders to find the right person. Because, especially if you're doing, a renovation or addition, and you're still living in the house, you're gonna see that person a lot. Like every single day, you're gonna see that person. And you need to be able to work with that person. You need to be able to get along with that person, and you need to have, be able to build a relationship with that person. That's a working relationship and amicable, and you're happy to, you're just happy to see that person every day. 'Cause you don't want the person turning up to your house, and you go, oh God, he's here again! Oh no! Hide or go and hide in the bedroom, or don't talk to him, or you know, that's, you don't want that. Like how bad would that feel? If that was the person that turned up to your house , every single day. Like, and that, that rubs off to the builder as well. And he goes like, I'll be here in days, it's bloody shit. The woman doesn't talk to me or any anything like that sort of thing so like, you need to find a builder, that you get along with quite well, and can, align themselves with your vision, for what your house wants to be, or what you want in your house, what you want in your home. So that they, you feel that they understand, what you're after. And then that's the first step, in finding a good builder. That's gonna work for you. And it won't be every builder, because everybody's different. And not everyone everybody gets along, but you know, you need to find that right person, to begin with. Otherwise it's just gonna, it's gonna give you a whole raft of advantages, right through the whole process, 'cause they're gonna remember what you said, you know, in the beginning. And they're gonna remember what you wanted, when you walked into the kids room, or when you, what you wanted, when you walked into the bathroom, and, or walked outside, with your friends, you know, on that time when the kids play, in here in the pool, and then you're cooking a barbecue here, with the pizza oven, and that sort of stuff. Like they gonna remember that, because you told them that, real early on. And if they understood how important that was to you, and how you had that. How you wanted to create this sort of feeling throughout, like once it's finished. required. - [Joe] I've had an interesting conversation, I think the underlying What was the most, what were you looking for One of the main things that But I think in the underlying message, of when you say quality trust, because he was said, he was saying- - I can't hear you. - Is that better? - Not quite- - Can you hear me now? - A little bit yeah. - cannot hear, it's like the different, for fuck sake. - [Henry] That's better. - Is that better? - Yeah I got you now. - Yeah had, it was on, can you hear me now? - [Henry] Yep. - Automatically adjusted volume. It must have just adjusted it down to nil. - [Henry] Yeah, yeah. - Is that, that should be a bit loud now too. - Yeah it is very loud. - I wanna stand a little bit. Fuck where was I? Anyway, after some technical difficulties, - I think that was - We'll cut the spinner. I'm gonna have a drink. - Got a beer, got a beer. - I, fuck all the Yes, so, I had done an interview with the client, after a that job for a minute. I was interested to see, what was one of his most important things, when he was looking for a builder or someone else. And, and one of the things he said to me was, was quality. And in the underlying message of quality, like everyone wants quality, you know? You talk to people say who's the best builder in town? Who's this? And I think in the underlying message of that, and what they're actually trying to find, is who can I trust? - [Henry] Yeah. - Because, like quality is one thing, but the quality comes with the trust. Like if they trust you, then they trust the quality. - Yeah. - So when people say quality, I find it's not, you're not worried about the quality, you're worried if you can trust me, to provide on what your expectations are. - Yeah, that's right. - Because will just be as a standard, like it should be a standard, it should just be regardless. - Yeah sure. - Not because of, you know, the who's the best builder in town, or who can do this the best. - The question of that, should be quality of what? - Yeah. - Quality of workmanship, quality of communication, quality of you know, understanding quality of you know, saying hello in the morning or what quality of what? - Yeah. - And like define the quality, 'cause quality can be quality of anything. Quality- - Quality is different to people. - Quality you know, fixtures. You know, I want quality. What do you want, quality fixtures, or you want quality concrete - Yeah, which one is it? - Define what quality, what the, like what sort of qualities you want in the, in your builder. And what you find, you know, what do you find, attractive really, you're like- - Yeah, I think it's a very good topic. - Hmm. - So we're gonna to wrap this up for another week folks. I hope you all enjoyed this podcasts. So any questions post in the comment section? You know where to find us. We're on the socials Andrew Quadrio from Quadrio Building Service, I'm Joel from Refined Space Constructions, and we will all see you next week for another episode. - Have a good day - [Announcer] That's it, for this weeks episode, of "What Builders Don't Show Their Clients. Brought to you, by Clients Space Constructions. us next week for another episode. Thank you for listening.
